2 | Jason Hand of Vape Bright | Vaping for Wellness
June 16, 2018
There's a lot of confusion about vaping: Is it healthy to inhale chemical vapor? Is there nicotine in all vape juices? What's better, a pen-style vaporizer, or a mod with a tank, battery and coil? What's in the various vape juices? To get some answers, we sat down with Jason Hand, CEO of Vape Bright, a California-based maker of vape pens filled with CBD. Listen and learn about:
- The history of vaping
- Why you need to pay attention to carrier liquids
- Why a deregulated market calls for more attention by consumers
- Why it's important to have organic hemp oil
- And much more
Kannaboomers: This week we have Jason Hand, CEO of Vape Bright, a company that's been making pen style vaporizers for a couple of years now. I'm fascinated with the whole history of vaping. We all know people started using e-cigarettes back in the 2004, 2005 timeframe as a way to reduce the harm of inhaling burning tobacco. It is since transformed into a delivery method of various medicines. Can you tell us your perspective on that?
Jason: Yeah, I remember seeing Blu come out and they were actually selling them in vending machines, in bars across the U.S in the very beginning. And that was kind of the start of e-cigarettes, which is why a lot of people still refer to it as that, but vaporizing evolved from that and that's when people started getting into the hobby of building their own mods. And that's where we've seen in the last five years, I'd say is this huge boom in more of the millennial market. Like where I guess since we've been told from an early age that smoking is bad, but vaping is such a new thing that it's become the immediate alternative. So if you're not a smoker, then at least vaping is the more healthy option. And I guess health is, you know, it's kind of a gray area in this space because it's so new.
But from what I understand, many researchers said that vaping anything is thousands of times less harmful than smoking cigarettes. So that's a good thing. But the hobby of it, like being the vape mod e-liquid market kind of created this, this whole different break in where people are vaping flavors. I remember when I was 18, hookah bars were really popular, all about the hookah, even though you thought you were actually getting less nicotine, you weren't like a single package of a hookah tobacco has just as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes and people were going through bowls and bowls of this hookah tobacco thinking, you know, that it was, it was safer. But realistically the whole idea of this vapor was really poignant and it took off in a huge way and it's because it's actually easier to manufacture than growing tobacco, if you imagine like having a huge fields of tobacco leaves and farms and drying it. And then the whole regulation that comes with all that. It's not very easy to enter the market, but vape liquid was unregulated at first and took off by storm where you could have every single flavor imaginable. And people started hobby building their own models and their own batteries and tanks and coils. There's just this massive niche market that surrounded vaping. So it went from cigarettes to vaping. And then people started noticing that, well heck, if you can mix in flavor than that's happened. If you mixed and other molecules
Kannaboomers: You've mentioned mods a couple of times, can we define that? Is that like the tank, that structure that has a tank and different parts, not a pen style thing, right?
Jason: Absolutely correct. Yeah. The mod would be more of the e-liquid craze where you have a huge, like a three milliliter tank or larger that you refill on a regular basis. Like if you see the people blowing clouds and making all those crazy smoke rings and rings and all that stuff, that's that mod style, where a pen is very specific. It's a smaller device. It uses less wattage voltage, meaning it's not made for blowing huge plumes of vapor. Again, there's like a split in the market of vaping. Not everyone is after the same thing. So there's people that want to just blow huge clouds of flavorful vapor. And there's some people that just want to vaporize something specifically.
Kannaboomers: If you're into blowing huge clouds, you go to a vape shop and you may or may not get a liquid that contains nicotine, right?
Jason: They do make e-liquid that doesn't have nicotine for people that just so say like if you're someone that's trying to quit smoking cigarettes and trying to get off nicotine, that may be an option for you to still get the sensation of the oral fixation but not actually have any administer nicotine. Pen style vaporizers like the ones we create are more of like a disposable specific purpose type of vaporizer where you're not buying huge quantities of this liquid and refilling a refilling a tank because it just. The nature of the of the oil that we use wouldn't be appropriate for it. If you were to put oil in a in a tank mod, you'll most likely burnout your coils because that the scarcity of e-liquid is much different than a hemp oil, so you can't really burn it as high temperatures. You can't do that with e-liquid because it basically would gum up and then fry your coil and ruin the mod. At least the coil portion of it. When you do that, so this typically isn't made for large, a large tanks like the less viscous liquid.
Kannaboomers: Our audience is baby boomers who are interested in good health and in CBD they would probably be interested in, in what you guys offer a pen style vaporizer that as you say, it's not heating it at a real high temperature and it's an organic substance, right? So can we talk about the contents of the Vape Bright pen?
Jason: Yeah. So before, I guess it makes more sense to talk about what it isn't because there's a lot different options and people think, oh, I got the CBD at this gas station, it's a vaporizer, it's really great. And then you look at the ingredients and you realize that there's very little CBD and a bunch of questionable other chemicals listed in the ingredients. So there is a huge distinction and that's really why we exist is there was a lot of um, a lot of different products being created at the say the boom of the CBD fixation. Once people realize you, there's other cannabinoids than THC. And started looking at the potential benefits of CBD. There was this huge breakout in the market and since there is no regulation, there was a lot of people creating a lot of questionable products that didn't really benefit anybody. Snake oil, if you will, a lot of products that didn't actually have really any effect of minimum effective amount of the cannabinoid and a lot of other junk ingredients.
So they were just selling at a premium, a bunch of terrible stuff. So we, we wanted to create something that would be high potency, all organic. That's what we attempted to do. What that requires is first finding organic hemp oil, which in itself is already hard enough because the USDA doesn't really certify as organic or not. So you have to really vet the growers and the quality of the material that they're using because hemp likes to act like a straw and it sucks up a large amount of heavy metals and pesticides. So it's a little bit of a risk in this market because you have to talk to growers that may not know what they're doing or are lying to you. So there's a lot of research and vetting the has to be done before you can even get the hemp oil and that took a long time to find suitable growers that were importing the proper high-quality organic material to begin with. And then from there, it's about formulating correctly, using substances that aren't toxic.
Kannaboomers: Where do you guys source your hemp from?
Jason: So we source from Europe. There's a few places in Scandinavia region that allow us to because realistically the law still governs legal. Hemp is, can only be imported , unless that changes. It's pretty much the state of the industry is anything that's considered legal hemp at this point must be imported. We take really high quality imported hemp from, from Europe that fits the bill of being organic and high potency. And then from there it's formulated to remove the THC because there is always like a small trace amounts of THC that may be what they consider too hot for it to be considered a hemp product. The law justifies hemp is anything that's below point three percent THC. And that's a very small number considering a lot of these testing practices have a variance of one to two percent, so you pretty much have to have zero THC or nondetectable for it to be illegal hemp product. So that's really important. And we use a local manufacturers and Colorado in California that can remove the THC to make a even more legal, if that makes any sense.
Kannaboomers: So you start with organic hemp from Europe and make sure it's clean, it's not full of contaminants and heavy metals and stuff. And then you extract the THC out of it and you end up with with an oil that is rich in CBD.
Jason: Yep. Then we still have to test it again once we get our hands on it. It was very little regulation in the industry. So we have to third party tested ourselves to make sure that we're not getting, you know, a fake COA (certificate of analysis). So it's been really important as the industry self regulates to make sure that all the material is tested twice to make sure that it, it is as safe as possible. Because if we aim to create the most potent and beneficial safe product, then we have to basically put our money where our mouth is, so every single batch that we receive, even if it's from the same producer, is going to be tested again. So after we receive what should be clean oil, we test it ourselves and then we begin our formulation, which is really simple and includes just basically giving it a specific flavor profile.
Jason: Since we're not interested in using any of the artificial flavorings that you see e-liquids do, we add our own blend of natural terpines, which are basically flavonoids are what gives cannabis its smell. Anything. It's smell, flowers, perfume, if you will. We add our own natural blend of terpenes to give it a give it a nice citrusy, smooth flavor because CBD in itself has a really sharp kind of spicy profile. When you inhale it by itself or if you taste it by itself, it has more of the spicy flavor. It doesn't taste that great. So we do our best to really give it a nice, smooth, borderline citrusy flavor.
Kannaboomers: Have you ever taken it sublingually? It's got kind of a grassy flavor that is not all that appealing.
Jason: You do get used to it, but yeah, if you're inhaling it on a regular basis, your throat's just going to constantly have this kind of spicy itch to it, especially given the potency that we're using. So we do our best to really round that out and smooth it. And then the terpenes and themselves have potential benefits because if you know anything about aromatics and aroma therapy, there's a lot to be said about specific uses of terpenes and smells and in those categories. So in itself, we're kind of adding additional potential benefits to the product by adding natural terpenes.
Kannaboomers: You know, the buyer needs to beware and look for brands that are very transparent in terms of their testing and their sourcing. Let's talk about some of the therapeutic uses. You mentioned high potency. There's people who take a lot of CBD, you know, if they're trying to treat a cancer or something, they might be taking, you know, 30, 50, 100 milligrams a day. What sort of dose does Vape Bright deliver and what are some of the theraputic reasons people are taking it?
Jason: So the first part of the question about potency, this is, this is a really interesting topic because right now there's a lot of misinformation, especially with people taking advantage of the ignorance of the new user, right? So there's a lot of people new to this, this market or this industry that see I'm a certain amount of milligrams and they think that that's the standard they. The question is, is what is the milligram per dose and how many doses are required. So what is the minimum for what you're using it for? So in vape it's even worse because everything is justified in milligrams in and milliliters. So it's very difficult. You have to basically do your own math where something will say 500 milligrams. So you're thinking it has 500 milligrams of CBD, but realistically it has 500 milligrams of oil and there's not actually 500 milligrams of cbd oil, so that oil is 20 percent, so you really only have hundred milligrams in that 500 milligram cartridge.
So there's a lot of people that speak in milligrams, there's some people that speak in percentages, but what you really need to know is the total amount of CBD that's in the product you're using. And then you need to figure out how much of that CBD can you administer into your body within a reasonable amount of time. Our product, for example, we have two different products, but say our original product thrive has 200 milligrams of CBD. It's in a 500 milligram cartridge, so therefore we're 40 percent solution that is very high for vape. Basically CBD in itself is a crystal a and at above 50 percent you're going to see it start to crystallize for anything in the 40 to 50 percent region as a really high potency as far as percentage in a single cartridge. So we'll get roughly a couple hundred inhalations before the cartridge is depleted, so we guesstimate, we don't know because we've never done the strict testing on exactly how much CBD is coming out of this.
We'd guessed that about one milligram per inhalation of CBD, so if you're thinking about someone that would want to get roughly 20 to 30 milligrams per day, then now it'd be 20 to 30 inhalations. What we recommend is 10 to 12 inhalations per use and then go from there. Another point to be made is that it's a very individualized experience. The same amount of CBD might affect someone differently than it affects you. Absolutely. Bodyweight genetics, there's so much to be considered and there's really only anecdotal testing that we have to look at it. I mean there's been tons of studies but they're not backed up by imperial science, so we don't truly know. All I can do is take my own experiences and the experiences of other people to gauge what that might look like. I know from my own experience that there is very clear zero to one effect from a product of this potency versus something that's like an e-liquid.
They'd only has three percent CBD in it. You could vape clouds all day and never feel anything, but I'm a much younger than maybe the audience you have. I read the hundreds of reviews and it's not just people that are talking about great product, awesome stuff. It's these are people in pain or severe issues that are looking for anything, for any sign of hope in whatever their condition is. The stuff they write is not. It's not just a short little blurb. They, a lot of people spew their life story, talk about it, how it's changed. I'm changed every aspect of their waking life, how they're able to go back to work. We had a gentleman named TJ that didn't know how to use the computer. He didn't know how to basically transact online an older, bedridden gentlemen who has never made a purchase online.
So imagine that he would call us personally to have us places order and he was such a. Such an interesting man, uh, he was always like joking around with us and he would call us random points of the day just to kind of talk. So in a way we, we got really familiar with, with TJ and he wrote us this letter several months later saying that he had been bedridden for years on opiates. He was finally able to move about the house and get out of bed, which is one of the most touching things because after getting to know TJ is quite honestly like the moment where I started to realize what we were doing is not just creating another product. It really is changing, uh, an individual's life.
Kannaboomers: That's awesome. When you can put a product out like that, that really does enable people to change their lives and whether it's, in his case, the opioids that we're keeping them down. Can you speak to some of the other testimonials that you've gotten from people who have used it for, for specific purposes?
Jason: Oh, there's times I would say that like looking at our reviews, the number one thing I see people comment on his, uh, his arthritis, that is a huge issue. And then I'd say second to that, his anxiety is what we see a lot of people finding potential relief for. There's just so many things I'm not even aware of or that I wasn't aware of it first that people are finding relief with,
Kannaboomers: I know CBD has been used for fibromyalgia for PTSD. People mentioned we've seen the videos of where it helps kids with epilepsy stops seizuring all day. Is your formulation useful in its dosage for those kinds of applications?
Jason: Yes. And um, and know in, in, in certain cases. So for people with really intense situations like say dementia and AIDS for example, there's people that are on a 30 to 50 to 100 milligram serving size and that's not something that can really use our product for. I mean, like I said, it would take half the cartridge. Would you have to inhale 100 times to get that kind of dose? It wouldn't be really efficient. If you're looking for a large amount of CBD all at once where I think something more like a tincture would be better for those situations, but anyone that's on the go, what I was recommending, what's great about this product is it's convenient. It's efficient. You can have it in your pocket. If you start to feel like you need some, you just can pull it out, take a couple breaths and put it back. A lot of people I've heard just regular applications that people going into a meeting, they're stressed out about it and just take a couple of pulls before they go in. That's more of the situation that I see at the most benefit for us when you're on the go and you need something to just kind of quell whatever's going on with you.
Kannaboomers: Right, and that's where the speed of it is. It's instantly absorbed, right? You're bypassing the liver. You don't have to go through your whole digestive system.
Jason: Absolutely, it's fastest and the easiest way to administer. I mean, anyone knows how to take a breath or suck through a straw, so there's not really much education that needs to be that comes with the product so everyone knows how to use it right off the bat and it's very easy to use which makes, if you you're familiar with the droppers or any of those types of applications, it's a process, you know, and it's more of like a medicinal process. We have to stop what you're doing, pull this thing out of a jar and then put it underneath your tongue. It's not like something you can do while you're driving or, or you know, walking the dog or you know what I mean? Like those types of applications are a little bit less convenient and therefore it's a lot, lot less likely you're going to use it on a regular basis or have it available when you need it. Something as small as a pen that can fit in your pocket. It's an instant breath and because of like you're mentioning, the lungs aren't incredible delivery system. The pulmonary capillaries are instant delivery system to your bloodstream, which is why oxygen works in the first place, or why cannabis works, or Thc, right? It's instant because your lungs are this, this huge reception device, and there's no faster way to get it into your bloodstream.
Kannaboomers: Back in the day when, when we were in college, you know, you inhale the substance and the thing was to hold it in for, you know, as long as he could before you let it out. When you're vaping, do you recommend holding it in? Do you recommend blowing it out to take a little bit of fresh air after you've hit the pen? Is there a preferred method for doing it?
Jason: You know, it's like everyone has their opinion on this subject, whether it be the substance or the other. I personally think the longer that you allow it to be exposed to your lungs that better, so I would recommend holding it in. It just seems to logically make sense that if you're taking in a plume of vapor, you wanted to hit as much surface area of your lungs as possible in order to be effective. I don't think like how kids smoked cigarettes in high school is going to do the job. Just holding it in your throat and blowing it out isn't really effective. I'd recommend taking a a short breath and then breathing it all the way down into the deepest part of your lungs and waiting a few seconds and the less you blow out at the end and the less that you're essentially giving back to the atmosphere that would make sense to me is to hold it in longer. If you can.
Kannaboomers: We've kind of talked about the history and about the current outlook in things that consumers need to be aware of. What trends do you see in this field that might be up and coming?
Jason: Oh, I can speak to what we're interested in is CBD is not the only thing that can be vaporized and same thing as I was alluding to a terpenes is there's a number of different. Let's just call them potentiating effects that terpenes have, so blends of CBD with other terpenes, with perhaps other molecules are interesting to us. I don't think CBD is the last thing we're going to formulate into a vaporizer. I think there's a potential for a lot of things that can be vaporized and they'll like if you've seen some of these vitamin B12 vapes or vitamin vapes, if you will.
Jason: There's some efficacy to it. And then there's also some BS to where it's not really possible to, to vaporize vitamin C for example, because the amount that you would need would be larger than the amount that you could fit into a cartridge. So you know, a single inhalation is not going to give you any reasonable amount of vitamin C and maybe even B12 might be in that corner too. But um, there's tons of other things that have interesting potential to be vaporized that we're looking at.
Kannaboomers: So you have Thrive and you said you have a second product too?
Jason: Yeah, we actually, we wanted to push the limits on how much CBD we can put in a cartridge what we're noticing is we're averaging 40 to 45 percent, so essentially we were giving away more CBD than we were even advertising, but we wanted to see if it was possible to create a 50 percent solution and stabilize it.
It took a while to be able to do it, but we managed to stabilize the 250 milligram cartridge, so we have thrive and thrive beyond which is an additional 50 milligrams more so it's a 50 percent. So it's a more high potency formulations. Yeah, we increase the potency but another, a 10 percent. It has a slightly different flavor profile because the oil we're using is basically extracted at a really high percentage, so there's not much plant matter left. Where say Thrive for example, has a lot more of the initial oil in terpenes that come with the plant. So it's more of a full spectrum product. The Thrive Beyond. Because the amount of CBD that were getting initially in the first extraction is so high that there's not a lot of room for the, let's just say like what I like to call, like the tannin for example, it's more of the plant matter that's left in the oil that creates the terpene profiles.
Thrive is more of a full profile, full spectrum product that has a lot of the natural trappings that come with the plant and Thrive Beyond has our own terpene profile that we've maximized. It's just a different formulation of flavor with a higher potency. So some people are really interested in the very earthy, organic, natural taste and flavor. And then some people want more of like a clean, very high potency solution that doesn't have any like outrageous flavor. So that's more of what Thrive Beyond his is very clean, administered a high potency product with, uh, with just a different flavor profile. So you're going to get a little more CBD in each puff, in a, in a flavor that is a little bit different. Yes.
Kannaboomers: So it's like the difference between an IPA and double IPA maybe.
Jason: Yeah. With with going the opposite direction, like a double IPA would be much more hoppier whether this tastes even less spicy. This is people have related it to is kind of like drinking tea. It has like a tea flavor almost, so it's very subtle and this is just like a lot of people because what happened is we ended up getting a lot higher percentage oil. Last year there was, there was a shortage on oil every, every year really this happens. People buy up the rest of the harvest before the new harvest comes in and there's roughly a couple months where there's. It's very difficult to find quality oil until the new harvest is complete. So roughly from like August through middle of October it's hard to find oil. We ended up having to find a different manufacturer and they sent us this really high potency oil. It looked nothing like our original oil, so we didn't know what to really do it that we didn't.
We weren't even sure if we're going to keep it. We sampled it out to a few people and they liked it. Some people liked the other oil better, some people like this soil better, so we didn't, we didn't know whether or not to scrap it or so we just decided to create a second product and just revisit the formulation. So what started out as an accident turned into a second product that um, a lot of people prefer and people that love the original product don't have to, they don't have to make a decision, they can just stick with the original Po. A lot of things happened right by accident and absolutely. Yeah, we're really pleased with it. I mean, like I said, it took a long time to be able to formulate something of this high potency. We thought we were already cutting edge when we created the 40 percent when we first entered this market, there was nobody that had a 40 percent vape around and anyone that did did was either lying or boosting the numbers with adding certain amounts of CBD isolate.
So it's, it's a lot different. Like a pure oil that was 40 percent was really, really difficult to find all of the vape solutions in the past where you know, five to 10 percent maximum in an e-liquid form or they were one to one or two to one ratios with THC that you could only get dispensaries. That was kind of this issue as if you really wanted a high quality, high potency CBD. You had to go to a dispensary because most of the time the formulations were too hot, meaning it had too much THC in it for to be able to be sold legally across the U.S finding something had no THC and high potency was really hard to do, so 40 percent was, was considered like insane at first and then to be able to produce a stable 50 percent that doesn't turn into rock candy was the next step. And that's what we've just been able to be and we're quite proud of it.
Kannaboomers: You guys have been at this for a couple of years and as you've, as we've kind of covered this, it's unregulated as you said, it's kind of like the wild west. You have to look for someone who's getting good, clean, organic hemp and who's testing all the while and who's going to give you a product that's got enough potency to make a difference for you. I mean, how many players are out there now? Are there dozens or hundreds? You've been at this for a couple of years in this market, it's exploded. Do you see that subsiding or is it just continuing to expand?
Jason: It's kind of hard to, to answer that question while there is more people entering the market, there's even more illegitimate people entering the market. So that to me, um, it's kind of at an equal ratio where there's a few quality competitors, there's even more people that are just creating crap. So yeah, it definitely is getting larger than. There's no doubt the CBD market is expanding at an incredible rate. And then the vapor category in itself, which was kind of undecided because it exploded so fast. I mean, at least the vape culture did that. It was, um, it was kind of a unknown what the future would hold as the FDA kind of came in and started regulating vape calling everything a tobacco product and taxing a lot of these products, holding licenses for manufacturing. There's a lot of things happening to the vape industry that was kind of at the same time effecting the CBD vape industry, if that makes any sense, because we're tied to it.
Jason: So if I buy a battery, this battery that powers this pen vape, it's this pen is for health and health beneficial uses. It's not a ecigarette. It's not simply a smoking alternative. Right. But that's not how the FDA sees it. When I buy a battery, it's a nicotine dispensing device. It's not, it's not just a battery. I have to pay taxes when it's imported into the United States because it's considered a tobacco product. Even though we don't administer any tobacco, they still considered a tobacco product. So that affects us in some capacity. So whatever laws they create around the hardware involving vape kind of affect us. So there was a moment where we weren't sure which direction it was going to go, whether or not they were just going to outright ban the sale of this stuff in the US until they figured out what it was.
So we were kind of know just watching from the sidelines wondering what was, what was gonna happen. Luckily it looked like it found some stability and it seems like they're happy with just texting the terrorists at the port for now. So there was a slight slowdown in the amount of vape products being created when it was first a huge explosion. You can just see like thousands of websites created for liquids and have every category. It's kind of like regulated a bit. So in a way that kind of spilled over into our industry where there is less people creating the products. It's just the level of difficulty is already so, so high because of one. Banking is extremely difficult. Transacting credit cards in this industry is a huge question mark because they don't know whether it's a tobacco product of a product or a cannabis product. There's a lot of credit card processors that consider this extremely high risk and won't even take you on whether it's because it's a vape or whether it's because it's related to cannabis, so there's tons of people that would love to create a CBD product but simply can't because a banking is so difficult.
Kannaboomers: Well, I mean you're describing this kind of shifting landscape, but as I think there's 26 or 27 states now that have legalized cannabis for medicinal use and even like as you say, it's, it's not cannabis really and it's not tobacco and then there's all kinds of commercials on TV right now about how vaping is bad for you. So there's still a lot of confusion out there in the market, obviously. Now I do want to also want to ask you about carrier liquids because that's a big thing too and people need to be educated about the kind of liquid that's carrying the CBD. And I know you guys have a special formulation you use that you feel is safer than some of the other alternatives out there.
Jason: Yeah, so essentially a carrier liquid is just a solvent that allows them, that allows the product to be vaporized. So CBD in itself is a crystal structure and it turns into rock candy at high potencies. So if you had a 95 percent CBD solution, it would basically be a gigantic. It looked like a gigantic crystal, like a, like rock candy would if you did that experiment when you're a kid, you know, he'd tie a string to a stick and put it in a highly, highly potent sugar solution. And the candy starts to form around the string. It's, it's the exact, it's exact same thing that CBD does. So, uh, you need to have the ratio of CBD to oil in it. The natural fats that come with the plant to be lower, so less than, say 50 percent for example. And the reason why that's important is it only takes a small amount of CBD crystal that just basically turned into a gigantic rock.
So you need the ratio of CBD oil to be correct in order to vaporize it, or else you'll just, you'll have a gigantic rock candy and your cartridge. What people have done is this followed suit into the e-liquid space, weather it's, propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. These are just different carrier liquids that allow you to dilute whatever it is that you're trying to vaporize. Both of them have questionable history and safety. There was a study done, I think a couple years ago, think he was the New England Journal of Health. Can't remember if that was them, but they basically showed that at high temperatures are high voltages. That propylene glycol turns into formaldehyde and that scared the living daylights out of all these people that are blowing clouds of propylene glycol, and I think that study has been since debunked, is basically the level of voltage required. You wouldn't even be able to inhale that.
Jason: 32:53 Meaning that the vapor would be so hot that it would. It would burn up to begin with and it wouldn't even be a pleasant, a pleasant experience vaporizing so chemically. You're saying that the heat that creates the kind of vapor you would inhale your. It's impossible to create formaldehyde. Yeah. You wouldn't even have a battery that can get that hot to begin with, so yeah, it wouldn't. It's not a typical experience. That's where the data is kind of skewed is that the levels they were exposing. This propylene glycol was, was extreme and that's not something that would be typical for many everyday user. Nonetheless, we were just scared to even go that method so we, we completely shied away from it. We didn't want there to be any question whether or not it's, it's now considered safe and I do believe it is. I don't think that propylene glycol is the devil, but I don't want any question.
You know what makes me feel good as I can sleep well at night knowing that I'm helping people and if there's any potential harm someone I don't think I'm going to get much sleep. So we decided not to go that route at all. So we started originally with 100 percent pure CBD oil, but there was also some issues with that as if it's not extracted properly. Like a CO2 extraction removes a lot of the fats, like the large waxes people are vaping, all natural wax and oils. There's potential for what's called [inaudible] pneumonia where basically the waxes are too large for your lungs to pass through the cell walls and your lungs and they basically stick to your lungs so you have essentially oil stuck to the walls of your lungs, basically have a cough that won't go away for five days until you stop using the product.
So a lot of people that are vaping, these all natural, 100 percent waxes are starting to get lipid pneumonia and wondering why they can't get rid of this cough. We were really scared to go this all natural approach as well. So it wasn't until a while later that we noticed that all of the top manufacturers were adding a triglycerides back into their oils to give it more, to give it less viscosity. You know, create a solution that can be vaporized. And that became the gold standard. So now instead of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, MCT oil has now become the standard. We're really happy about this because it's probably the highest quality best carrier liquid, if you want to call it that, that you can find because all it is is medium chain triglycerides, meaning they have less than, I think less than 10 carbon chains that allows it to be passed through your walls of your lungs a lot easier, so it's a really clean, appropriate way to use hemp oil because the oil itself doesn't contain any large fat or waxes that would naturally stick to your lungs because that's typically coconut. Yeah, so
Coconut oil has MCT but we're not using per se coconut oil. Right. Like if you see coconut oil at the store, it's usually, you know, solid and white and then if you see MCT in supplements section, it's clear in liquid where coconut oil still has a lot of the waxes and in the fats, the solid fats that make it solid even though it's at a very low melting temperature. It's not something that you wouldn't want to vape coconut oil, but it's perfectly fine to vape MCT oil. I know that it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but there truly is a large difference between the two. Organic MCT oil is derived from coconut oil. It's just had all of the fat removed so that it's a natural liquid that contains only the triglycerides, only the lipids if you will.
Kannaboomers: It's derived from or is it a synthetic oil?
Jason: I believe that they can make synthetic a MCT and that that's what a lot of supplements use. We use a organic because we just, yeah, we just appreciate something that it's organic more than, you know, the question of whether or not it's derived from a safe source. Again, MCT, no matter which way it's derived, I think is better than any of the other alternatives, so I don't think it matters if it's organic or not. Uh, we would just prefer it to be organic, so we use an organic MCT derived from coconut.
Jason: We're a legitimate company that's been doing this for two years now. We have well over 1,200 reviews from real people with real issues. It really has something to say. We stand by our product, we stand by our word. We have a wonderful customer support team that's willing and ready to answer any question you have. I think that's really important, especially in an industry that has so much uncertainty in and so much fear surrounding it that we have real humans that are ready to take your call or to answer via chat window in the website. That's really important. Yeah, we're always ready to answer.
Kannaboomers: That's great. Thank you so much for your time, Jason. I think we covered a lot of stuff and I know our listeners are going to be interested in this and I look forward to having you back on. I know there's going to be a lot more to talk about in the future, but thanks for sharing your expertise on this important topic and we hope to talk to you again. Really appreciate it.