18 | Charles Jones, CEO, LucidMood

Too much THC can result in unwanted side effects, including anxiety and paranoia. But what if you could dial in the positive effects of cannabis, without the potential downside? That's what Charles Jones was thinking when he created LucidMood, a line of vape pens formulated with CBD, THC and specific terpenes. Each pen is named for the state of mind its designed to create, including Party, Chill, Calm, Relax and several others.

For baby boomers seeking a predictable and mild cannabis experience, LucidMood could be just the thing. Listen now to hear more from Charles about how he developed the LucidMood line, and how it can help you create the mood you want, every day.


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Kannaboomers: 00:00 Hey, it's Tom welcome back to the Kannaboomers Podcast. If you're a first time listener, you will find that we like to talk about how cannabis can help your wellness. That's been the focus of many of our interviews. It is, again today as we talk with Charles Jones, CEO of LucidMood, Colorado-based company that makes the vape pens that are formulated to create specific mood states like Party, Unwind, Sleep, and so on. It's a very interesting conversation. There's a lot of ideas, from one that you can customize the entourage effect, to the promise of a standardized experience every time you medicate. So I think you'll like the episode. Before we jump in, I want to thank our producer Danny in Milwaukee who always does an amazing job of making a sound good. Thanks Danny! Now here's Charles Jones, of LucidMood.

Kannaboomers: 00:45 Let's talk about Weed, The Kannaboomers Podcast, CBD, microdosing and all things related to medical cannabis for baby boomers from San Diego. Here's your host, Thomas J. Where

Kannaboomers: 00:56 Where are you today Charles?

Charles Jones: 00:58 Boulder, Colorado.

Kannaboomers: 00:59 The epicenter of the Post prohibition era.

Charles Jones: 01:02 I think the folks in LA, we would argue with that, but certainly it's, it's fun being in the state that legalized recreational marijuana.

Kannaboomers: 01:11 Do you have a background in cognitive science?

Charles Jones: 01:14 I do. I, I have a probably better said as I have an abiding interest in passion and have been a student of behavioral cognitive science since high school. I'm kind of an independent study, if you will. I don't have a masters or Ph.D. Or or something like that. Um, but it's been a lifelong fascination for mine, particularly things that affect someone's affective state. Um, emotional center. Emotional intelligence is a big interest of mine. And, um, something that I use pretty extensively in my career before cannabis.

Kannaboomers: 01:50 I saw in your bio that you served as the chief scientist at the Institute for Adaptive Mastery.

Charles Jones: 01:56 A, that's still the case. So actually we will be publishing a book this coming year on translating emotional intelligence into higher performance. My, uh, the 12 years before I started, um, a LucidMood. I worked as an executive coach and leadership development consultant, mostly in Fortune 500 companies.

Kannaboomers: 02:19 So you have a lot of experience in helping people sort of, um, adjust their behavior to get to the next level.

Charles Jones: 02:25 Yes. That's fair.

Kannaboomers: 02:29 When you looked at everything happening in cannabis, um, what was the opportunity that you saw?

Charles Jones: 02:35 Well, the way I got it, I got interested kind of in two phases. So like you, I'm a baby boomer and I used marijuana in a high school and early college at some point in college. Just the academic demands were too great for me to function well, you know, even the next day after, you know, doing a bong hit the night before with my friends, I'd just be a little dull. I just wouldn't be as sharp as I would like to be. And so I actually gave up a using marijuana in college and that was the case until 2014 when, you know, uh, so the bill passed here in Colorado to legalize recreational marijuana in 2013 and 2014 when dispensary started opening up and anybody could, who was 21 with a driver's license could walk in and check things out that all my friends are either calling me or, you know, sending me little things on Facebook: “Hey Charles, what's it like being in the promised land so to speak?” And I just felt obligated to, uh, you know, go into a dispensary, check it out, give my friends a report on what was going on here. And when I walked in it kind of stunned me. I was a little kind of overwhelmed by the number of strains that were being featured. I didn't know how to make a buying decision. And um, you know, well, would you like an indica or sativa? The mic? I don't know what's the difference between them and, uh, uh, do you want blue dream or director or a Durban poison? I'm like, well, I don't think I want Durban poison and, uh, you know, so, you know, I think I'm smart and so, you know, and I, I'm a frugal shopper, so it was like, oh, well, which one has the highest percentage of THC? Well, this one does great. How much more expensive is that one? Now at this point, the clerk, the budtender that's working with me, the other bud tenders are starting to like look over at me with this almost amused kind of smile and um, you know, really detecting that I had no idea what I was doing. Right? It clearly was my first time into a dispensary and the um, budtender working with me. He said, well, you know, they're actually all the same price. And I'm like, well, why doesn't everyone buy the one that has the highest percentage of THC at this point? All the budtenders start coming over. It wasn't crowded and you know, to, to like amuse themselves with my naivete. And he's like, because they all feel very different. Like this one's really good for sleep. This one I recommend for pain, uh, this one is great for if you want to have some kind of creative project or inspire imagination, uh, this is what I would do if you want to go for a hike. And I'm like really? And all about tenders and nodding their head and I'm like, wow, I'm, I'll take a gram of each. And I walked out of the store with a gram of each of the strains and went home. And Lo and behold, I found, I found two things. One was what was represented to me was accurate. Um, different strains produce these different effects, um, and I kind of got excited and I didn't like the names that have been given to the strain. So it kind of renamed him and you know, this one was, you know, active. And another one was great rate for sex and this one's good for, you know, just chilling out and watching a movie. And I relabeled them. And, um, uh, but the other thing I noticed is that I found them quite impairing and I wasn't able to be productive and function pretty much the rest of the day and sometimes into the next day after I had done them. So, you know, my, uh, I kind of discontinued use. Um, but before that was over, I was fascinated how could this one plant produce all these different effects? So I did a little research and learned about terpenes and learned that the difference between these strains and the different strains of indica conceive of, for example, was largely what aromatic compounds were in them and that each of these in combination with THC and the other cannabinoids produced these different effects. So that was kind of my introduction, if you will, to, you know, cannabis science one-on-one. And I didn't go any further with it until a couple years later, uh, a mom called me and said, hey, my 17 year old is using marijuana. They're doing these things called dabs. I don't even know what that is, but I think they're like, they're doing a lot. And should I be worried? How worried should I be? And um, so, you know, I went on Pub Med and I started looking at the peer-reviewed articles to see if I can make kind of a risk assessment for her. And I became even more fascinated. I've found articles showing that you could mitigate the working memory impairing effects of THC by balancing it with an equal amount of CBD. I found, uh, you can reduce the kind of anxiety or paranoia that some people experience, especially on a sativa you could by changing the terpene profile and adding some CBD. You could do that. And so by the time it kind of emerged from this research, I had concluded two things. Um, so when I called her up and I told her that, um, I thought she should probably be less concerned about her son's cannabis use than she should be about his Adderall use as an example. Um, and the second one was that this plant wasn't a single drug like alcohol or caffeine or tobacco and nicotine. It was a drug development tool kit. And you could create a wide variety of recreational and medicinal formulas by extracting out the individual cannabinoids and terpenes and combine them in ways that you might never find in the plant, but that would lead to the ability to dial in very precise effects and very importantly for me as a consumer, dial out the impairing side effects. And that's how LucidMood was born.

Kannaboomers: 08:59 What an incredible epiphany. And I love the way you stated. It's a drug development tool kit with so many potential applications.

Charles Jones: 09:08 And not only so many potential applications, but once where the efficacy was as good or better than many of the pharmaceutical drugs that are out there and the safety and the, the, you know, the reduced risk and the reduced harm as compared to an opiate or a benzodiazepine. Um, you know, or even alcohol. So, um, so that was like super-exciting and I did a little bit of research and no one was doing this. No one was doing anything about it. And the people with the capability of doing it, pharmaceutical companies, they couldn't really move into this space and hit GW Pharmaceuticals. And, uh, outside the United States that had developed a drug called Sativex, which is basically a one, one ratio of THC and CBD and was using it to treat neuropathic pain in multiple sclerosis patients. But, um, other than that, it sort of wasn't happening in the whole pharmaceutical model. If you find one or two compounds and you, you, you direct them towards something specific, that model wasn't going to translate very well into cannabis where these effects are a synergy of one or more cannabinoids and usually multiple terpenes being combined together. Um, so I pulled together a group of friends and we started doing some, some research, um, to learn how we could formulate for a specific effect.

Kannaboomers: 10:41 Did that include a chemist or how did, how do you begin to wade into this when, as you say, there's so many strains. And then when you layer on top of that, the number of terpenes it gets complex pretty quick, right?

Charles Jones: 10:55 It does, it, it can. Um, I, as part of that reviewing the peer-reviewed research, I had actually scribbled down five formulas on, um, you know, on a piece of paper. And, you know, there was sort of working hypotheses, hey, I think this will be relaxing and this will be energizing and this will be very calming. Um, and uh, but it wasn't, you know, their hypotheses wasn't sure. No one had quite done this. So I did pull together a chemist and an engineer and attorney, you know, the kinds of folks that I thought I would need, um, to initially do this. And it turns out actually four of those five formulas worked exactly as I expected and they became our first four products, which are a year later we released into the Colorado market. So that was a Thanksgiving of 2016. And for my good fortune, I'm a neuroscientist named Dr. Tristan Watkins who had just graduated from Vanderbilt and had his lifelong dream was actually to formulate from cannabinoids and terpenes in the space. He actually found me. And, uh, you know, we sit down for the first interview and I'm like, okay, so what do you think is in these four things? And he nailed all four formulas just right off the bat. And I'm like, well, how would you begin to create things that could be replacements or alternatives to the blockbuster pharmaceuticals are out there like I'm an anti anxiety or an opiate replacement or an alcohol replacement. And what he said was, I knew enough at this point to recognize that he had a really good understanding of this and a better one than I, and I pretty much hired him on the spot and he then, you know, really took our whole formulation capability to the next level. And we brought out products like our relief formula, which is comparable to an opioid and pain relieving effect with zero chance of dependency or addiction or a benzo replacement. Um, that reduces stress and anxiety very, very quickly, um, and again, without that risk of dependency, nor the sort of long term cognitive deficits that you get with, um, you know, regular use of, of a benzo. A sleep aid, uh, that was about 80 percent of people who have trouble getting to sleep or staying asleep find this formula, works very well for them. Um, which with a sleep product, sleep has many suspicious and many ideologies. Uh, that's, that's actually very impressive and um, uh, so it's just has been and it's been very fulfilling. We get emails on a weekly basis from people who are telling us that our products have changed their life or you know, really improve the quality of their life in some way.

Kannaboomers: 14:13 Well, what I'm flashing on his, you know, the fact that we did have 70 years of prohibition and as baby boomers we live through that and you know, it was always an illicit substance so there was a thrill to using it and then maybe the paranoia came from it being illegal and it sometimes it just amplifies whatever you're carrying in you, but the kind of genius that you brought to this now when we have the technology to isolate the terpenes and the other cannabinoids and say let's combine these in this combination and address this issue. Whereas a long time ago it would have been just folklore, this plant does this, this plant does that. Now he can be a little more directed in creating the formula.

Charles Jones: 14:55 Absolutely. And one of the other things too that Dr Watkins brought with him is a clinical-style trial techniques. So we actually run each of our formulas through a clinical-style trial and for instance, for our, a stress relieving formula, alright, and elevated anti-anxiety formula, um, he actually brought study participants in an induced, a state of anxiety in them: Okay, please count backwards by seven from a thousand and one. Um, and I expect you to get to 600 within the first two minutes, which is like impossible. No one can sort of get there. Um, and people start getting anxious and freaking out and they've been told that their reward for the study is going to be tied to how well they perform. And, you know, a previous to this, some of them have done nothing. Some of them have done what amounts to a placebo. Some of them are doing a one to one ratio of THC to CBD. Some of them registering CBD, some of them are doing the full mix with all the cannabinoids and terpenes that are in his formula. And uh, and the results were very, very impressive. Um, so to get that kind of, um, you know, scientific rigor, if you will, um, to, to know that your product is going to have a very consistent effect of very predictable effect and you know, from my perspective as a CEO and, and marketer if you want to build a brand, one of the key things is the experience has to be consistent time after time after time and if you're going to make cannabis and the benefits of cannabis accessible to people who, um, you know, either new to the whole space or like me, they, uh, are boomers and used to use it years ago and kind of swore it off for work or kids or whatever it might be. And they're a little anxious about picking up cannabis. Again, they're intrigued, but they're kind of anxious to especially hearing that the percentage of THC is, you know, five to 10 times what it was, you know, when I was in high school. Then having something which promises you a given effect and also promises you that you're not going to be, you know, impaired. Um, you know, one of our slogans is, uh, you know, ‘enhance your mood without clouding your mind.' And one of the, one of the things that we've learned with our user testing over the years is that about 40 percent of adults are different. How impairing THC is varies widely amongst different people. There are some people that can do that. Bong hit, they can do a dab, they can function just fine, you know, across a wide range of, of tasks. There's other people for whom they hit two hits off a joint, they feel incredibly disoriented and discombobulated a, maybe they start feeling paranoid. Um, it just kind of foggy and cloudy and I'm in that category. Um, and our, what we found is that about 40 percent of adults are in that sort of category where they don't really tolerate the impairments of THC very well at all. Those people love our product.

Kannaboomers: 18:31 We all know baby boomers, not, not all of us, but that's what's exciting about being able to microdose that. Basically. I'm in a reliable way.

Kannaboomers: 18:40 Absolutely. And I think, um, uh, what I think a lot of people compare our products LucidMood to microdosing and I think it has that sort of safety and predictability and common, um, but the differences and kind of what makes it really fun is you can do quite a bit of LucidMood. You could do the equivalent of, you know, five or 10 milligrams of THC even more, um, in LucidMood and because of the way that we have balanced the CBD with THC and what terpenes we've included in what terpenes we've left out, you can be really high, like have a, have a sense of a real sense of elevation, that kind of a kind of feeling very aware and being able to observe your own thoughts and emotions and, um, and it was kind of a pleasure and sense of, of elevated sensation and experience and still be very functional with LucidMood. If I'm, you know, and you, you can't do that with conventional cannabis products. You know, you get to a certain amount of THC and you just don't function uh, at all. So, um, you know, it's really you. Another way to say it's really the elevation without the stupid suffocation.

Kannaboomers: 20:01 What is the ratio that you target for, say, a calming effect? What is it like five to one CBD to THC?

Charles Jones: 20:10 We have a, we have two ratios in our products, so we have a product line that includes THC. So you're going to get that sense of elevation, you're going to feel high. Um, and all those products are one to one ratio of THC to CBD. I'm at that ratio. You eliminate the chance of someone becoming paranoid. You eliminate the social, you know, social awkwardness and anxiety and withdrawal that you can get with a straight THC product, um, and you keep the person's working memory intact and it doesn't feel the way a high THC product would. So we really liked that ratio. Um, and then we're bringing out a, this quarter we're going to bring out a product called a LucidMood. CBD Unwind. It has no THC in it. It's CBD, plus a terpene blend and it just takes the edge off, reduces the, um, if you have any stress or anxiety or irritability, it just, uh, it just takes that off the table.

Charles Jones: 21:22 Um, you don't feel high, you don't feel elevated on it, um, but you feel, you know, kind of relaxed and alert. Um, so this is great for somebody who, you know, needs to drive through rush hour traffic or they've arrived home and they now need to pick up their kids or uh, they need to continue to be productive, but you know, the stressors of their day and they just want to, you know, kind of take the edge off in that way. It's a great product. Um, and I think a more kind of, as a wellness product than a, a recreational product. Um, and then we have in the one to one ratio, THC, CBD product line. We have things that are, uh, like Party. It makes you very energetic and enthusiastic and sociable. It's designed to be an alcohol replacement, uh, and uh, sort of medicinal line. We have Relief as I mentioned. And then, you know, for anxiety, this, this Unwind product, um, so anyway, the, the to ratio is we focus on are the one to one THC CBD or the THC just CBD and then often another cannabinoid or two plus some terpenes.

Kannaboomers: 22:43 I would think that among baby boomers, there's a lot of interest in that Party formula. You know, many of us have been social drinkers for a long time and we all know it's not the best thing for your liver. Alcohol. It can be a very destructive, a drug substance. Do you find in the demographics of your customers are they're baby boomers who liked that formula?

Charles Jones: 23:03 Yes. Um, yes. And I would say the, actually the Party formulas seems to have the broadest appeal across the demographics. Um, uh, people really like that one. Another one I think, which is pretty popular across all the demographics is, is Energy. It's my favorite when I moved here in Boulder, um, when I get home from work, I'd like to go for a hike, so I'll just, you know, hit the Energy and then hit the trail. Um, yeah, so that's a, that's a nice one. But yeah, Party is great for kind of any kind of social situation and um, it's also really nice kind of pre intimacy. It's a, it's a nice, it's nice for date night in kind of evening, Netflix and chill. Well no more like know, forget Netflix, just head for the bedroom.

Kannaboomers: 23:59 You were talking about the, like the 40 percent of people who don't really tolerate THC so well. And in my discussions with other people, the point comes up that genetically people have different responses to different strains and even sometimes within the same batch, the same story, the same strain within different batches might have a different effect. Do you find that's true or do some people have different reactions to different formulas?

Kannaboomers: 24:27 Um, so kind of a multi-tiered question here. Um, so one, one thing to understand is that the, the genotype of a strain, the genetic information is strain that would be consistent across, you know, potentially the whole crop. But the, the expression, the terpene expression, um, even within the same plant can vary significantly depending on whether the bud is at the top of the plant near the light or it's in the shade or how much water it gets, the, you know, to various environmental conditions. And that's why you get so much variation even within the same plant in terms of what the effects are going to be because the terpene profile of, you know, the button at the bottom of the plant and about, at the top of the plant is going to be different because of the difference in environmental conditions. So you have that variation going on. The other thing that we found is that the more psychoactive ingredients that someone is consuming, the more variable the experience is going to be across, uh, many people. Um, so the same strain may affect you very differently than it affects me. If you reduce the number of active ingredients. And you know, our most complex formula is seven ingredients to cannabinoids and terpenes. And most of the formulas are two cannabinoids and one or two terpenes. If you reduce the fewer, the number of ingredients, the less variation effect across people that you find. So one thing that's very unique about what we've done is we aren't starting with a strain. We're with a plant from which we extract, uh, uh, the matter from a strain. We're starting with purified cannabinoids and terpenes. So basically we're just starting with the building blocks and we're building up to. So if you buy a loose and mid Party prep and Maryland or it was some Party pen and California was at my Party pen in Colorado, it's the, is exactly the same. It will taste exactly the same. It will feel exactly the same every time.

Kannaboomers: 26:50 That's amazing because you can never really promise that with the flower itself because as you said, the bottom of the bud or the top of the bud, there's gonna be a lot of variability. So are you using extracts, then you have a, an extract of a cannabinoid, and then you're going to mix that with the terpenes that you've identified.

Charles Jones: 27:10 Yeah. So, so, um, when I started the business, of course it's still, it's still the case that, uh, um, things that you've extracted from the marijuana plant are considered schedule when substances under federal law. So I wanted to build a business model where we weren't breaking any federal laws. So, um, it's almost like a sort of a franchise model where we develop the formulas we, um, and then we shipped the proprietary trade secret. A terpene blends along with a branded device and the packaging to our partners say in Maryland. And then they add a pure THC and CBD to our terpene blend, mix it together, put it into a filling station that we provide, full proof, a filling station that we provide. And it fills the pens, the pens go into the packaging. And that's how we know that every pen that says we submitted it on the shelf, you know, party is exactly the same in every state that, um, you'll find it.

Kannaboomers: 28:24 We've all heard of the entourage effect in the pharmaceutical model. You're trying to isolate a molecule and produce it into a pill that someone's going to take. But with this plant, as we all know, there's, there's many cannabinoids and many terpenes. So you, you are customizing the entourage effect. It's, yes. There's still a synergy that happens between those, those elements that you've identified.

Charles Jones: 28:48 Absolutely. And sometimes the, um, you know, so part of our ongoing research is, and for your audience that's listening, you know, we've been using the word terpenes and anyone that has been in the cannabis space for awhile is aware of what terpenes are, um, but just to make that sort of more accessible, uh, you know, all plants produce this class of chemicals known as terpenes and they have a. Most of them have a physiological effect as well as a psychotropic effect. Um, and people that are very, uh, and this, uh, these effects are well known in aromatherapy. So if you get a lavender aromatherapy, um, and lavender oil people report that relaxing, um, and it is, it's, there's the three main terpenes that are in a lavender oil. I'm one of them has a, a light slightly euphoric effect. One is a muscle relaxant and a very much kind of a lean back sort of experience. And the third, um, makes you very lethargic. You just don't really want to move. You're not going to go run a marathon kind of a thing. And so, um, if you have, you're a ball of, um, you know, your lavender aromatherapy in the bathtub and you get in the bathtub and it helps you relax. Well, you take those same terpenes and you add some THC to them. This somewhat subtle effect becomes a very strong pronounced effect. And, um, uh, it's extremely relaxing at that point. So that's, you know, so, so we're really leveraging that and some of our research, you know, we develop hypotheses from looking at what's been happening in aromatherapy and what oils are used for what. And then we'll do an analysis and figure out what the terpene profile of that given aroma therapy is and then individually test each of those terpenes. And in this way, our knowledge of how each of these terpenes affects your mental state, you know, grows and grows.

Kannaboomers: 31:16 And as a guy with a background in cognitive science, you're not shy about looking at that. I mean, some, some of the people I've interviewed don't want to delve too much into, I don't know, the, the touchy feely part of cannabis, but you've talked about how it can make you more aware of your thoughts and change your state in a way that, you know, alcohol. Sure can't. And do it in a positive way.

Charles Jones: 31:38 Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, so we, you know, our mission, if you will, as you know, making the mood-enhancing benefits of cannabis available to self-aware adults and uh, you know, people that are very tuned in to how different kinds of molecules or experiences affect their mental state and um, they want to go through life and kind of the optimal mental state for whatever activity they want to engage in and enjoy. And um, you know, people have been doing that for thousands and thousands of years. Um, you know, I'd certainly put, you know, alcohol in that category. People, um, I think there's a number of reasons why people use alcohol, but one of them is because of lowers your social anxiety and inhibition since easier to sort of meet people at a cocktail party or networking event. Um, you know, for me that's a real legit, a application kind of way to use it as a social lubricant. And, and as you mentioned before, alcohol, you know, has calories, it can lead to dependency and um, there's a number of risks associated with it and it in high volumes, you know, damage to your liver and things like that. Um, so bringing out something that will produce that, that same, a reduction, social anxiety and reduction inhibition, but unlike alcohol won't make you successively more and more tired. Alcohol's the central nervous system depressant. Um, whereas our party formula you is actually quite energizing and you can have a room full of people sipping on our party pens for hours on end and they feel just as sociable and awake and excited, enthusiastic, you know, two, three hours in. Whereas, you know, two, three hours into an alcohol party, you've got people sitting on the couch and maybe someone, you know, it's, it's not as pretty.

Kannaboomers: 33:38 Yeah, yeah. I'll say in getting a predictable effect from it at that. That's uh, that sounds really appealing. I have to tell you, I asked for LucidMood at a dispensary. I was at, uh, over the weekend in San Diego and they didn't have it. So I'm going to have to shop around because I'm really curious about try.

Charles Jones: 33:57 So we just got into California in the bay area. Uh, you can actually order LucidMood from a SocietyJane.com. It's a delivery service for the whole Bay Area and we'll soon have similar arrangements in San Diego and LA.

Kannaboomers: 34:19 That's great. I look forward to that. So you've come a long way in two years and I'm not gonna ask you to divulge any secrets or business plans, but is this the tip of the iceberg? Is there much more to come? What's your take on the market and where we're going and where you're going?

Charles Jones: 34:35 So we recently raised a series a from the top venture capitalists in the industry to build out LucidMood to become a national brand. Um, so by the end of this year, you'll see us in Colorado, Delaware, Rhode Island, Maryland, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania. In Nevada, California and, uh, uh, I think, uh, you also see us in Canada, uh, toward the end of 2019. So really making moves, submitted, available to people wherever they live is a big push for us. Um, the other side of our business is in this process of learning what we needed to, to develop LucidMood. We learned a great deal about the entourage effect and how to combine cannabinoids and terpenes to deliver very precise effects. And, um, we are now on a white-label basis for some other brands. Um, so, uh, that's going to be a push for us as well, particularly on the THC-free side of things, uh, with the passage of the farm bill containing the provision that industrial hemp and anything extracted from industrial hemp other than THC, you know, will be considered illegal at the federal level. Then we see a fantastic opportunity for THC products eventually to be sold in large scale chains, CVS, Walgreens and stuff like that. Um, and we hope to be the, in some cases, the brand and a LucidMood in other cases, you know, the formula that's underneath the hood for these products.

Kannaboomers: 36:29 Well, um, I mean in theory CBD is legal in all 50 states right now, so that gives you a, an entree into virtually every state, I guess. And as you, as your brand becomes known and as the prohibition lifts in state after state, perhaps your, your, that's,

Charles Jones: 36:47 That's exactly. With a plan to get people comfortable with or THC products under the LucidMood brand name and then gently invite them to check out the one to one ratio, THC, CBD products that they'll need to walk into a dispensary for. Um, so that's exactly our strategy.

Kannaboomers: 37:08 And you're even international I guess if you're up in Canada. So that's, that's pretty amazing.

Charles Jones: 37:14 Yeah. Thank you.

Kannaboomers: 37:16 So we've talked about sort of mood enhancement aspect of it, which is kind of a level beyond many guests I've talked to who talk about discrete diseases. You know, inflammation that cannabis can fight inflammation, it has anti-tumor effects, it can help with epilepsy, it can help PTSD and pain and, you know, very serious diseases. But I guess you're the first guy I've talked to who really goes at the mood aspect of it. And that's what's interesting and probably unique, you know, I think there's a lot of it appeals to just about everybody so that that's it.

Charles Jones: 37:51 You know, one challenge that I think any company in this space has. So let's take for instance a PTSD. Um, we actually have lots of anecdotal reports of people that have used products to assuage the symptoms of their, of their PTSD. And um, I recently got an email from, um, of that who had tremendous difficulty just going out with his friends and being in a restaurant and every time you hear a sound behind him, he's, you know, you know, bracing for, you know, what's going to happen or it just can't keep his attention on his. He's just always scanning the environment for, for threats. And um, I gave him a few of our CBD Unwind pens, there's no THC in them and it's just changed his life, you know, he just sips these things including at the restaurant or whatever, and he doesn't have this a fight or flight reaction when he hears a sound or whatever. So it's really improved the quality of his wife. We don't market that product for PTSD. Um, and if we did, you know, sooner or later the FDA and FTC would come after us for making claims without having gone through formal clinical trials and being approved by the FDA. So that's going to be interesting in my mind to see how these things shake out for someone, you know, for us to market the product, you know, calling it Unwind and people find that it helps them in these areas. That's wonderful. And that's one thing. Um, but you know, I think over time what you're going to see is that the cannabis products that are prescribed by a doctor for PTSD, they're going to come from traditional large pharma companies. And then you're going to have this whole market just as you do. Now when you walk into a health food store and apothecary or whatever, and you can find these products that you can use for your insomnia, they just can't say in some yet they just have to say, you know, improves a normal sleep or something like that. And so I think we're gonna. See, the same thing happened with a lot of these cannabis products, whether they're, they're sold in a retail outlet, goes, they're free of THC or they're sold in dispensaries, but you know, here in Colorado, if you're a budtender and you tell someone this product is for this medical condition, the local authorities could actually shut you down as a dispensary, right? It can't be positioned as medicine or as treating some disease. So it's just, you know, it's a challenge and it's one that's been faced by, um, the supplement space for a long time.

Kannaboomers: 40:54 Well, it's another genius aspect of, of the brand where you named each formula as the, the end state that the user wants, but you're not implicitly making a promise or a claim. It's the, the aim that they, they have in. And here's a product that could help them get there in a way you've gotten the holy grail, I mean a product that replicates the experience, um, when it's such a variable plant based product, but you've found a way to give the user a consistent experience, which is fantastic. Charles, where can we find you online?

Charles Jones: 41:35 LucidMood.net.

Kannaboomers: 41:38 Is there anything else we should cover?

Charles Jones: 41:43 I think you've been very thorough and uh, you know, it's a first interview I've done, um, specifically for baby boomers and um, you know, being a baby boomer myself, I, that's particularly meaningful. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing what you do and thanks for sharing your expertise.

Kannaboomers: 42:04 I'm really excited about giving it a try and I bet you a lot of our listeners are as well. Um, so take your time. Look forward to that. You've been listening to Let's Talk About Weed, the Kannaboomers Podcast, with Thomas J for more information on medicinal cannabis for baby boomers, visit us at Kannaboomers.com.


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